The Fabulous Learning Nerds

Scott Schuette (00:05.359)
Hey everybody, we're back and welcome to another groovy episode of your Fabulous Learning Nerds. I'm Sketch your year host and with me, fresh from the toy store, Dan Coonrod.

Scott Schuette (00:18.881)
Dan!

Daniel (00:20.138)
Fresh from the toy store. love it. How you doing Scott?

Scott Schuette (00:23.055)
I'm doing well! How are you, sir?

Daniel (00:26.976)
Fair to Midland. There it is. There it is.

Scott Schuette (00:32.367)
All right, so I'm gonna start the show out by plugging another YouTube channel slash podcast bit. I'm a nerd, I'm a huge nerd. I collect toys, I have toys in my office as one might, right? So I don't mind coming out of the woodwork and talking about that. And one of my favorite YouTube shows is called Toy Federation. I bought the T-shirt.

And it's one of the biggest vintage toy stores in the country. And it happens to be in Dan Coonrod's backyard, pretty much. Yeah, yeah. Pretty ding dang close. So I was talking about it with you about some other stuff and he's like, Oh, that's in Greer, South Carolina. I could throw a rock in here, hit Greer, South Carolina. I'm like, Oh, you got to go. And, and so you and Zeta went and I, I just need to, I just need to hear how that went, sir.

Daniel (01:11.988)
I'm pretty close to it. Pretty close to it.

Scott Schuette (01:31.983)
because I'm totally jealous.

Daniel (01:32.214)
I mean, it was pretty awesome. This was pretty awesome. Like I took Zeta and took our kid and we just kind of meandered around after going to a nearby all you can eat sushi place. So really it was just one of the best days.

Scott Schuette (01:49.091)
That is totally awesome.

Scott Schuette (01:54.186)
my God, it's just, I just can't stand it. How long did you end up spending there? Like I could spend all day there to be all honest with you.

Daniel (01:54.39)
Hahaha!

I think we probably spent like 45 minutes just meandering around. Zeta, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, it's rookie numbers.

Scott Schuette (02:02.447)
45 minutes, that's it.

Scott Schuette (02:08.751)
Well, okay, you know what? I want to bring Zayda in because I want to get her impression of what's going on. I know you're showing off what you bought. I want you to talk about that because I think it's just totally cool as hell. So with us, she also loves toys. Zayda, everybody.

Scott Schuette (02:31.629)
See ya!

Zeta (02:32.635)
Hey, hey, Scott.

Scott Schuette (02:39.247)
All right, so you hung out with Dan at Toy Federation, and how was it? I'm super jealous.

Zeta (02:45.849)
It was like a mecca. it was amazing. I tried to send you pictures just so you could kind of like be there vicariously with us. It was amazing. It was wonderful. I was immediately drawn to the fact that they have all first gen TMNT figures, like all under glass.

Scott Schuette (02:50.873)
You did.

Scott Schuette (03:02.991)
Okay, stop, stop. We have to, we have to spell that out for those people who don't know what a TMNT is. What is it? Is it a goat? No, it's fine.

Zeta (03:09.446)
Sorry, that is Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Scott Schuette (03:13.879)
That's right, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, that would be what we were looking at for sure.

That's right. That is totally cool. I have a story with our guest about acronyms for toys that went over his head, but we'll get into that. That's great. So Dan, what'd you end up getting?

Zeta (03:23.417)
So cool.

Daniel (03:34.902)
So because I'm a giant nerd, I'm going to show it here on camera. know folks can't see it. But I ended up getting this Star Trek Enterprise model. It's from, I know everybody's favorite, Star Trek 5. Everybody adored Star Trek 5, Right? Not just me? No, I know it's the worst. No, it's the worst. It's the worst.

Scott Schuette (03:38.787)
Giant nerd.

Scott Schuette (03:52.673)
I kinda didn't like Star Trek V very much, you're gonna tell me why you love it in 30 seconds or less.

Daniel (04:00.854)
I love it for silly, soft, sentimental reasons. You know, I didn't spend a lot of time with my dad growing up. know, I was a loud and angry kid. But one of the fondest memories I have is us going to see Star Trek V together. And originally it was going to be me and my brother and my mom and him.

Scott Schuette (04:24.783)
Huh.

Daniel (04:29.014)
was gonna be a big family thing and one by one, everybody else peeled off until it was just him and I. We didn't get along. So we're just sitting there in this movie theater watching this movie. about halfway through the movie, I realized like, man, this is bad. This is not good. And about the same time he leans over and he's like, I thought this would be a lot better. And I was like, yeah, yeah, me too. And he's like, all right.

Scott Schuette (04:43.309)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Scott Schuette (04:52.262)
no.

Daniel (04:57.618)
And we sat and watched the rest of the movie and then we left and we talked about how bad it was. It's silly. was, and we went home, but it was one of those, it's just one of those like, like, sweet moments from when I was a kid. Like my dad, I went to go watch a movie. We both thought it was pretty bad, but like we both sat and watched it and it was a good, bothering experience.

Scott Schuette (05:16.825)
Well, that's fantastic.

Zeta (05:16.847)
That in Star Trek IV was so much better.

Daniel (05:19.953)
my god, it's so good, it's so good.

Scott Schuette (05:22.041)
It is really good. It is awesome. Yeah. my goodness. Yeah. You can't see on my wall, but I have a whole bunch of Star Trek autographs on my wall from people. James Duhan, God bless his soul is on my wall. And that was really great. Got to meet him, which is awesome. Also with us is the man behind the curtain. I'm going to go ahead and let him outside from the curtain and he's going to tell us what his favorite toy is. Everybody Sam.

Zeta (05:23.101)
nuclear vessels.

Daniel (05:26.644)
nuclear vessels. Yes.

Zeta (05:34.31)
Nice.

Scott Schuette (06:02.874)
Sam! Yeah, your drop's a little long, I to trim it up.

Sam (06:09.99)
so my favorite toy?

Scott Schuette (06:12.003)
Yeah, or did you go with these guys? Did you nerd out at Toy Federation?

Sam (06:14.715)
I did not go to the toy federation. Man, my favorite toy, my favorite action figure. I'm gonna dig deep and I'm going.

Scott Schuette (06:24.889)
Hold on, you did not go to toy federation?

Sam (06:28.719)
I I think they'd have one of my favorite things there. I'm going back to my childhood. Again, I think a lot of this is fueled by nostalgia. I love Bionicles.

Scott Schuette (06:37.774)
Yeah, they would have had that.

Sam (06:40.635)
Well Dan, did they have Bionicles there?

Daniel (06:42.593)
Yes. I think, think they did. I think they did. And to be fair, Sam, I would have brought you with, but we literally went there on accident. Like we had, uh, we went to go hang out with Autumn. They were, they were working and we were like, Oh, let's go have lunch with the kiddo. And so we went out to lunch. We took him out to lunch and then a few other friends rolled up and we were all done and we hit a thrift stores across the street. And then across the street, I think it was Zeta who was like, Hey, I think that's that toy federation place Scott was talking about. And we were like, Oh my God, it is.

Sam (06:51.024)
Ha

Zeta (07:09.563)
Like we have to stop, we have to stop.

Daniel (07:11.624)
It's right there. So it really wasn't a plan thing. It was awesome.

Scott Schuette (07:16.335)
Okay, next time you're gonna plan, please tell me you're gonna plan. fun fact, they have an entire back room that's twice as big as their store full of stuff.

crazy. Yeah. So like when you, when you trade things in at their store and they take can trades and they pay it pretty good, right? A of times people are like, you know, there's a GI Joe rifle. need one of those. And the rifle is rare because you can't find that stuff. I get 3d printed, but it's not real. Right. So yeah, they'll, they'll collect that kind of stuff and then they'll put pieces together and then put them out to get sold. And they'll just, that's what they do. They just buy your stuff and then put stuff together and

Daniel (07:27.326)
I believe it. I believe it.

Scott Schuette (07:56.579)
Yeah, that's it. So, hey, we're not alone today. I have a very special guest. We have a very special guest with us. He's a friend, he's a mentor, he's been on the show many times. Please welcome Dean Griss, everybody.

Scott Schuette (08:20.515)
DEAN!

Dean Griess (08:22.914)
You know, Scott, gotta say, just listening to that conversation around toys, I'm thinking back about all the things that I played with as a kid. And Dan, I loved your story about your movie going with your dad, because I immediately reflected the first movie I ever remember seeing. My dad took me to see Empire Strikes Back, and I still remember he bought me a little action figure before I went. And when it hit, what is it, 30 years or whatever, my

son who I think was like three at the time I took him like, this will be so cool. I bought him an action figure. I'm like, I'm going to recreate this whole thing. He got bored. We left halfway through cause he just wasn't, uh, it wasn't happening. And, uh, he had an unfortunate accident, uh, cause he wasn't quite ready to, um, let me know he was time. It was time to go to the bathroom. So that kind of accelerated our departure time, unfortunately. So, uh, but anyway, empire strikes back for sure. It was, uh, coming to mind as you said that Dan.

Daniel (09:12.201)
no!

Scott Schuette (09:12.591)
No... no!

Daniel (09:15.605)
Ha

Scott Schuette (09:21.273)
That is so awesome. So I have to have pop quiz for you. So I created one of those, create your own action figures when that was a thing. So everybody was doing their own action figure. And then I said, Dean, yours looks like a Motu. So Dean, what does Motu stand for, sir?

Daniel (09:21.706)
That's awesome.

Dean Griess (09:39.108)
So the funny thing is, is you hit me with the acronym and I wasn't expecting it. However, when you spelled it out and said it was Masters of the Universe type themed, I knew exactly what you were talking about because that was one of my favorite type of toys growing up as well. And as soon as you said that, like, yeah, you're right. That does look kind of like that. And that was not by design either, but I'll take it. I wasn't gonna turn it down or have it recreated. No, I was good with it.

Scott Schuette (09:43.308)
Exactly.

Daniel (09:43.754)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Scott Schuette (09:47.854)
That's right.

Scott Schuette (10:03.223)
No, but...

Scott Schuette (10:08.419)
Yeah, you're a gym rat, so make this guy buff. I'm like, okay, well, you look like he man. You're a Motu figure. That's awesome. Everybody's into Motu. Okay, we've just lost everybody. We actually have some really amazing things to talk about. Dean's written the book and we're gonna talk about his book. We're gonna have to go ahead and share some knowledge around facilitation and public speaking and all sorts of things like that. So without further ado, let's go ahead and dive into our topic of the week.

Scott Schuette (10:41.133)
This week, don't show your duck butt. All right. Dean, what does that mean? Don't show your duck butt.

Dean Griess (10:51.416)
Well, it's it is funny. So when I was toying around with the title of the book, I originally had before I had an official title, I was presenting at ATD and I was sitting in the room with the advisory committee because I'm part of the program group and that was the title of my session and a couple of the other members. As soon as it popped up on the screen, because everybody had to present which ones that were selected, everybody stopped like.

What is that title? Am I reading that right? And I'm like, yes, unfortunately you are. And as soon as I was like, everybody said, my God, that's awesome. So I was like, okay, I think I found my title. So the intent behind it is if you think about this, and this is an analogy I've used for years working with the, know, thousand plus trainers and presenters that I've worked with throughout my career is think about a duck that's gliding along the water, right? Looks very calm.

Daniel (11:21.386)
Hahaha.

Dean Griess (11:47.524)
collected and an unflappable if you just smooth as silk. And yet what we don't see is what's going on below the surface of the water. The legs kicking like crazy, the fish coming up, everything turning underneath the water. And yet what happens is when the duck drops its head below the water, what do we see? We see the duck but we see the chaos. We have this internal vision of what is going on below the surface.

The reason why this is important when you're in front of any audience is we wanna remain cool, calm, collected, and unflappable. Even though in our brains, while we're delivering a session, all this chaos is happening in our brain, but we never wanna convey that or have our audience actually feel or see any part of it. And our internal chaos inside of our brain is, I on time? Am I covering the right topics? Am I going too fast? Are they getting it? Do they like me? Am I on time?

all these things that run through our brain, our audience should never see any of that. And so that was the whole premise behind the book was based off of that analogy.

Scott Schuette (13:00.927)
First of all, I think it's genius because it's not a topic that you see a lot at conventions and it really is one of those topics that stick with people. If you ever go to ATD or Learning Guild or whatnot and you're like, hey, what am I going to go look at today? Duck butt, I'm going to that. I'm to go to that presentation because that sounds like fun.

I wish that I could say that every presentation I've gone to at conferences, learning conferences were fun, but I can't say that, which is not the case. But I know that yours for a fact is fun. Talk to us a little bit about what you really wanted to accomplish with the book and more importantly, what's resonating with people as you talk to them about some of the things that are in

Dean Griess (14:00.1)
So Scott, you and I've known each other for a really long time and we worked together and we've always remained connected and you know even way back when, when I stumbled into this profession, it was just one of those things where I absolutely fell in love with it and it became a passion for me. And yet what I'd always found is any presenter or facilitator I had ever seen, there's always this intense

focus on the content, the objectives, and all these other material-focused, material-laden focus that is out there. And there's not as much focus on the actual person themselves. And so it always drove me nuts when someone's getting ready to deliver an activity, they just say, okay, go do this. The instructions are in your book. And I'm like, are you kidding me? How are you supposed to make sure that the learning is actually happening if you don't

set the activity up correctly, or if you don't follow a decent process to open the session, start with a great, you know, session, and even more importantly, coming across very confident and very authentic, because that's one thing that tends to get lost. And so what I included in the book was really a litany of really tactical items that anyone can actually utilize, whether they're starting their journey as a facilitator or presenter or

If it's somebody that is has been doing it for a long time and just looking for just some, fine tuning on how they can do it. Because anytime that I've, you know, seen other books that kind of fall into this category, it's, it tends to be very theoretical based. And it's like, this theory says this, or that we should do it this way. And yet how do you, how do you apply that? And so that was the, the intent of the focus of the book was really providing tactical tools.

that any presenter or facilitator can put into their toolbox.

Daniel (16:02.713)
That's awesome. That's awesome. I feel like there's so much stuff out there for instructional design on like, here's how you build a course and here's how you make it engaging and here's how you do all this stuff. And then we hand these things to trainers, to facilitators and go, yeah, it's already there. Just talk, do stuff. And it's good to have something. So that's awesome.

Dean Griess (16:26.53)
Yeah. And, and you know, and then I'll, I'll add to that is even if there was any type of quote unquote training for facilitators or presenters, there's been very few that I've seen that really focus on the tactical components, but the majority of them are very focused on everything outside of the, the individual and the various tactics. And if they do, it's such a small element of like, Hey, here's how to manage a discussion. Here's the type of types of questions.

And there is so much more that folks can actually be utilizing that can build their confidence if they feel better equipped.

Scott Schuette (17:06.135)
Yeah, I think that's really, really cool. It begs a question, right? Because I know you know a lot and Dean taught me everything I know. So I think that's really, really great. I'm a new facilitator. listening to the Fabulous Learning Nerds. I'm writing down where I need to go buy some toys. And now I'm going to get some great advice from Dean. What would you say are the top three

keys to success from a facilitator point of view? Like I'm new, I'm gonna get up in front of people for the first time. What are some keys to my success that I should be paying attention to? And you don't have to give away all the really great stuff, but you know, three really cool things that I should be thinking about would be.

Dean Griess (17:55.364)
So Scott, I have a love hate relationship with that type of question, which I've received quite a few times throughout my career. And I've even had folks like, what's one thing that I can do to make me a better facilitator? I'm like, my God, there's so much that can go into it. However, in the book, boil down all these various elements into four key categories, authenticity, confidence, preparation, and audience experience. And so,

Scott Schuette (18:18.274)
great.

Dean Griess (18:24.012)
within those four categories, if I were to prioritize some of the elements that you had just asked, like if I were to tell someone that's brand new to this profession, where should they start? So one of the first things if somebody is newly starting out that they get really hyper conscious about is their nervous habits. And there are so many under the sun, people don't even realize that they're doing them. And the first thing that I always tell folks is to breathe. And it's not necessarily to

you know, make sure you don't suffocate and die. It is more so around the lines of making sure you're taking those calm breaths. And I even touch on in the book around how to efficiently breathe as well. But that breath itself will help keep everything calm because as you start to take those more shallow breaths, your shoulders start to tighten as your shoulders start to tighten, your throat starts to tighten as you start, as your throat starts to tighten, you start to talk faster. And the next thing you know,

your mouth and your brain are completely out of sync. And then at some point you have this panic moment and your brain like, what did I just say? And so that breathing is really that first big element to ensure that everything is remaining calm and you're ensuring that the mouth and the brain are remaining in sync. And I'll give you one more. I know you said the top, you one to three items and I'll give you two. The second one is around the self preparation.

which I think is something that gets overlooked because most of the time if you hear preparation, it's, my room set up? Do I have all the materials? Do I know my content? Am I on time? All very valuable, but I'm thinking more on the individual. Are you as the individual in the most optimized space that you can be to deliver the best possible session? And so one of the...

the elements that I include inside the book under preparation is what I call the preparation sequence. And this is something that I stumbled into because I just realized I started doing things no matter, anytime I walked into a session, I was doing these same things over and over again. And I did them so often, they just became a habit. And it's, you know, silly things along the lines that I need to, you know, make sure that I have eyeballs on the room no later than the day before the session. The day of...

Dean Griess (20:45.42)
I make sure I get exercise first thing in the morning. I make sure to take a cold shower in the morning just to get the blood flowing. I watch some sort of a humorous either show or standup routine. And then I warm up my face and I do vocal exercises, which is just me sitting in the car and commuting to the place singing, which sounds really silly, but it warms up the machine, which is your voice. And so all of those I was doing consistently.

And so that preparation sequence helps me ensure I don't even have to think about those, they just happen. And no matter what, I'm in that most optimized space. So the top two is breathing and making sure you as the individual are prepared to deliver your most, your best possible session.

Zeta (21:32.753)
That's wonderful. Yeah. I'm a little bit curious if I could just jump on a tangent real quick. The name of your book isn't just Show Your Duck Butt. It's Show Your Duck Butt, Tools to Kick Butt in front of any audience. So could you help me in defining how one can go about kicking? What does that mean to do that in front of an audience?

Daniel (21:33.348)
I love that.

Dean Griess (21:38.244)
free.

Zeta (22:02.472)
How would you define like a flawless delivery?

Scott Schuette (22:07.279)
cancer.

Dean Griess (22:07.468)
Yeah, Zeta is bringing the heat. love it. no, I absolutely love it. And you're right.

Zeta (22:08.209)
don't know if we... Dude, I didn't know if we could...

Scott Schuette (22:14.583)
You can say but all you want, Zeta.

Zeta (22:18.429)
Thank you.

Dean Griess (22:19.012)
So I went through the, I, when I wrote the book, I did it through the lens of really shifting that mindset from, have to deliver a class. I have to present a session. It's more so I want to create an exceptional audience experience and all of those components play into it. And so when I talk about tools to kick ass in front of any audience, it really is.

Scott Schuette (22:19.439)
You're welcome.

Dean Griess (22:48.548)
The tactics, regardless of the size, it can be in a one on one. It can be in front of a team meeting. It can be in front of a room full of a thousand or ordering drive through at Taco Bell. It does not matter. All of these tactics put you into a position to better connect and create a better experience for other humans because I'm of the opinion that the ability to move a group of people in a unified direction

with the experience that you create is a superpower. And so it's kind of reframing that thought process of I'm gonna stand up, I'm going to talk at you for an extended period of time versus people walking away with what I call unwavering loyalty. And what I mean by that is, like for instance, Scott, if you were delivering a session, you're creating great experiences, and then the next day you're walking into a room, the folks that were in your session the day before see you walking in and say, hey, Scott,

I don't know what you're getting ready to go train, but I know what kind of experience I'm going to receive. I want to be a part of it. I don't even know what it is, but I want to be a part of it. When you create experiences like that and create that level of unwavering loyalty, you've hit that sweet spot and all of it and all these various tactics equip you in order to do that. Does that kind of make sense Zeta?

Zeta (24:08.78)
yeah, yeah. And the estimation of you're taking the authenticity, your confidence and preparation to just ramp up that audience experience to the point where it's energized and like memorable.

Dean Griess (24:23.3)
100%. Yeah. And even that, that fourth component and yes, it's somewhat redundant, but that fourth category of audience experience, there's a lot of those often overlooked tactics. you know, giving a framework for how to have an impactful opening, how to have a powerful closing, how to tackle questions appropriately. And notice how I didn't say answer questions. It was how to tackle them because there's so many different ways that you can

address questions and tackle them when you receive them. And it still allows those in the audience to feel heard. It gives them an opportunity to make sure that everything that they asked is being addressed to their satisfaction. So it's even down to that granular type of level that it's all these little small pieces that build up over time that create that experience that you're really shooting for.

Daniel (24:56.278)
you

Scott Schuette (25:14.969)
So I got two things I don't want to follow up on. One is this idea of being in that zone. So when you do multiple day trainings, or even if you do a single event training, like it's an hour or two or whatever, I always knew I did a great job of connecting with people is after the class or even between, you know, the day two, whatever people want to come up and talk to you. So, you know, you did a great job with the connection point when

Dean Griess (25:17.614)
complete.

Scott Schuette (25:44.429)
you show up and your audience wants to engage with you on whatever. Like it could be about what you're talking about, but it more likely is about whatever, right? And that's when I know that I've delivered that experience and helped them connect to the class. Cause ultimately you want to create a safe space where everybody can contribute and whatnot. And if you want to talk to me about the WWE or whatever, I mean, then we're good, right? So I think that that's good. The same thing after class, right? When it's a,

People come up to you after class like without exception. I knew when I did a great job. I'd be after class for 45 minutes to an hour. Easy talking about either what was delivered, but then eventually it would become other things. And I think that that's one of the things that is an easy tell for us as facilitators that hey, I kind of I kind of hit the mark here, which I think is really great. Second thing that I wanted to bring up is one of the things that you taught me early on.

which has stuck with me in the most miraculous and amazing way is this idea of using the room. Could you talk a little bit about using the room and some crazy ways that you can use that and why it's important?

Dean Griess (27:02.724)
Well, man, you're digging at the history books there. I love it, Scott. So the...

Daniel (27:07.567)
Hahaha!

Scott Schuette (27:08.707)
Well, you you taught me how to use the room, man, and it changed my freaking life. It just changed my life. There's still plenty of other stuff to buy. You still wanna buy this book, folks. Go ahead, Niko.

Dean Griess (27:17.048)
Well, let's go.

Dean Griess (27:21.414)
yeah, so when you think about you using the room, it really kind of centers around the movement. And if you want to see the big vein in my forehead just come bursting out of my face, have me sit in a session where somebody is completely anchored behind a podium. It drives me absolutely bananas. humor story really quickly.

I gave somebody else similar feedback because he was anchored behind the podium at one point in time. And I was doing a virtual observation. This was before Zoom. So it was this huge TV, whatever. So I told him that after the first day, said, hey, you gotta move around the room, dude. As like, you're stuck there. It gives you an opportunity to engage more. So similar to the type of stuff that we had talked about, Scott, I kid you not, the next day I sit in the session, this dude,

moved throughout the room, but took the podium with him. He wheeled this thing throughout the entire computer lab. And it wasn't a small podium. This sucker was huge. I kid you not, he wheeled this sucker all the way around. And that's when I realized, okay, point taken. Be more targeted with my feedback around, leave the podium and move throughout the room. But to your point, Scott. So.

Daniel (28:20.006)
Ha ha!

Daniel (28:40.911)
I, when I was, when I was a young trainer and I was just, just getting started, I, the, boss at the time called the podium, the safety anchor. Cause he's like, he's like, you would take a couple of steps out and then you'd come back and then you take a couple of steps out and you come back. He's like, just get away from it, just get away from it. And the next time he didn't an observation, I was still behind the anchor or behind the podium. And so finally, in order to remind myself that like, I need to like get out from here.

Dean Griess (28:58.956)
totally.

Daniel (29:10.895)
like I drew like a little like anchor picture and I put it at the podium. So every time I'd walk by the podium, I see the anchor be like, yeah, I'm not supposed to be here.

Dean Griess (29:21.518)
Well, and Dan, you're spot on that the cool thing about utilizing movement, you can use it for a variety of different reasons. And so you can be in front of the room if you're presenting slides or you're making a point, if you're still the primary focal point. And yet you can move to the front corner if you wanna be a little bit more on the periphery of the view of the audience, but you want the PowerPoint to be the primary focal point. Same thing also applies

where if you move to the side, that's a great spot where you're kind of more or less indirectly telling the audience, hey, we're all in this together, we're gonna do this, but maybe you're facilitating the discussion or maybe you're having a conversation. It gets you out from that front space and gets you more on the level of those folks that are seated. Or you can also stand in the back of the room. And this is the cool part about this is while you're using this movement,

I'm of the opinion, and I use this analogy in the book, that trainers are like pickpockets. You get to control where people look. And so if you're in the back of the room, I can use my voice and say, hey, everybody do me a favor. When you look at the slide up there on the front of the screen, when you look at those four bullets, what are some of the things that stand out to you? Now I'm directing them where I want them to look, but I'm not the primary focal point. The other overarching component around getting through the room,

Not getting in people's personal space, mind you, but utilizing the entire room. It's a great way to help build some indirect rapport because you're getting a little bit closer to folks and not feeling like there's this disconnect where I'm up in front of you, listen to everything I have to say versus this is a true collaboration. This is a conversation. We are going to move through this session together. So there's a lot of value to Scott, your question around.

the movement and why utilizing the entire room can be so valuable.

Zeta (31:21.629)
So with that in mind, if I could just ask real quick, so say you're virtual, say you're not in, you don't have a room, you have a virtual room. How do you use the room there? Do you have any tips for someone who's just doing this remotely?

Daniel (31:21.915)
I've got her.

Dean Griess (31:38.596)
The cool thing is, even though you're thinking about how to build rapport or how to engage by utilizing your movement and getting just even in closer proximity to individuals, you can still have a similar effect virtually. Now you can't physically move, but I think to your point Zeta, to still have some of that same effect in the virtual standpoint, one, you have to get out of the mindset of what's comfortable for you as the facilitator.

And what is the perception of those in attendance? I.E. where are your eyes when you're attending a virtual session or when you're delivering a virtual session? I've built this habit over quite a long time and you know, Zayda, I think you can see now I can't turn it off that when I'm talking on a virtual setting, I'm looking down the barrel of the camera. And this is by design because I wanted to feel like Zayda, I'm talking directly to you versus

If my screen is this way, you're not staring down my ear canal, nor have my camera below me and you're looking for bats in the cave. No, it's eye level. I'm staring down the barrel because I want that experience from a virtual standpoint. So I'm looking to make that connection. In addition, Zeta, what I would say is in that virtual space, you can still have a similar impact virtually, but it has to be much more intentional. And so when folks are coming into the session,

utilizing their names, engaging them, asking them about their work. Even if it's a brand new session, you don't know anybody in there, just getting to know them helps. Then as you go through, you can call on them by name or you can say, hey, do me a favor, throw your responses to the question on the slide in the chat. As you see responses, then you could say, Zeta, I really like what you listed there in the chat. Can you expand on that for us? Cause I think I know where you're going, but it would be super cool if you could add some more to that.

So kind of to your point, you're not physically moving, but that rapport and that connection element can still be prevalent. You're just using slightly different tactics.

Zeta (33:45.393)
was excellent, Dean. Thank you.

Dean Griess (33:47.438)
Yeah.

Scott Schuette (33:50.671)
Yeah, I just think that it's such a game changer. Because when you, couple of things from my perspective, when you're using the room, you're building energy, right? So if I'm planted up front, man, that's like being trained by a tree. And I've seen people plant them so, so hard that they face plant because all the blood rushes to their feet and they just faint. I've seen it. I know you have, and everybody's seen it. Don't be a tree. Not a good thing. But if I'm walking around the room and I'm making transitions and

using movement to make a transition from one subject to another is just masterful because it just feels right. Like, okay, this feels right. It's cool. But it also keeps my audience guessing, like, where's Scott going? What's he doing? What's going on? Right? And they just can't help but try to figure out what's going on. One caveat to that is that a really great man named Dean taught me that he never turned my back on my audience either. practice, I swear to God, this is true.

you got to practice walking backwards. Like go into your room and actually use the room while you're there. But especially if you get a U design, right? So I got people all the way around me. This is really important or it doesn't really matter. But I want to make sure that I've mastered. I where that projector is. I'm not going to bump into it and make an idiot of myself. But I can safely engage with my audience and use a backward movement to draw them into what I'm doing.

Holy smokes, like that's just like the greatest Jedi mind trick of all time. One of the things that I thought was really great is that you're talking about like, you know, present from the back of the room, which I think a lot of people would say, let's blasphemy like no way, why would you do that? And I'm like, why would you not do that? Like totally do it. It just kept you, you you serve your audience's expectations. And the more often that you can do that, the more engaged they will. And again,

creates a greater safe space. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to rant, but it was just such a powerful thing. you guys can, audience, if you learn to master your movement and use the room, I just think it's such a great tool. The other thing that you mentioned was, go ahead, Dan.

Daniel (35:52.654)
No, dude, it was awesome.

Daniel (36:05.627)
You know, I want to jump in on that. I was like, I want to jump in on that just because just mastering the room and like building awareness. Like, uh, think, I think Scott, I've shared this story with you. I was delivering a class and it was in a small room, but they, w they like, can we record the session so we can play it black for later use? And I was like, yeah, of course that's not a problem. And so I kind of found my perch in the room and you know, it was a new space. It was, I was uncomfortable. So I ended up staying in the same space for almost the whole lesson.

Class goes fine, things are good. It's not for like a month, maybe six weeks later. I get an email from basically, you know, the client that had recorded me and I said, hey, just wanna say thanks so much for letting us record you. We do have one problem we've run into and that was where they had put the camera, I stood right in front of it, crotch height. And so for the entire class that recorded, it is just my midsection.

delivering the class the whole time. so like, there are like, not just for movement sake, but there's just room awareness is if you're if like moving is good moving is good for so many reasons.

Dean Griess (37:17.974)
And Dan, you reminded me of something and it kind of builds off of Scott's point around being conscious of turning yourself away from the audience, but also remaining engaged. I had this backfire, even though I wasn't really doing it. However, I had this colleague of mine, we were delivering a session. This was a bunch of high level executives. They were on this board for this part of the organization and they'd asked us to come in and deliver the session. So we were co-facilitating together. Session was going great. I'm like, they're asking questions.

we weren't sure if they were just gonna be like, who are these buffoons? But they were super engaged. And it was kind of a narrow U, but it was a fairly long. So I was kind of making my way up into the U and I gave them a little bit of an activity to kind of reflect and jot a few things down. And then as they were doing that, my colleague said, hey, come here. I said, oh, what's up? She said, don't turn your back. Like, what do you mean? It's like, well, I'm not trying to. She's like, no, trust me. Do not turn around and show your back. I'm like,

I know this why she goes you have a hole in your pants and she she underestimated or she undersold the size of said hole so the whole seam of the butt of my pants was completely ripped somehow somewhere and so I had this big old flap going behind me in front of all these executives so needless to say I was like you know completely clenched the entire time stood at the front of the room and I'm like this isn't happening again so

Scott Schuette (38:21.621)
my god!

Daniel (38:23.227)
You

Dean Griess (38:44.728)
That is another powerful reason if you don't know what's going on behind you, either.

Zeta (38:49.861)
And definitely don't show your duck butt.

Dean Griess (38:53.154)
Yeah, exactly. Way to bring that one.

Scott Schuette (39:00.857)
Okay, sorry.

Scott Schuette (39:04.505)
You're not the only one that's ripped their pants in before training. want to make, I think, well, there might be another person on this podcast has done the exact same thing. so I totally get where you're coming from. you know what I'd love to do before we kind of wrap this up and get some final thoughts from you, I would love to go around, Robin around like just one pro tip from, from each person here, that we just kind of add for the, for an audience perspective.

and then we'll go ahead and wrap it up. So we'll start with you, Dan. A pro tip that has not been talked about yet. There may or may not be in Dean's book. It probably is.

Daniel (39:42.073)
I got a weird one. have a genuine weird one. This may only work for me, but I highly recommend it to anybody. Training is a full contact sport. You're on your feet for hours and hours and hours a day. And if you're following Dean's advice and just doing good stuff, you're moving around, you're talking, you're doing a lot. It's tough on your feet. And I found being a big dude that after being on my feet for eight, nine, 10 hours a day,

It was killing me. And so one day, because I spilled some stuff on my shoes and they were sopping wet, I went to my car because, you know, as a crazy person, I keep an extra pair of shoes in my car and all I had in my car were my cowboy boots. And so I wore my cowboy boots. And I kid you not, it completely changed how I move in a room and how I delivered and it my feet didn't hurt because it threw my stance forward a little bit.

So instead of like resting on my heels, I was on the balls of my feet and it changed how I walked around the room. And I noticed that because I was leaned up a little bit more, it gave my walk a cadence because it's kind of what you could hear it. The don't the don't the don't. So people would track me as I moved around the room. And pretty quickly I realized, this is like this really cool, weird thing that like people notice like, that's Dan. He wears cowboy boots. And but it made people pay attention to me as I moved around the room. So weird.

long-winded way of saying, find the thing that works for you and don't be ashamed that it works for you. I wore cowboy boots in the office because of that for the next decade of my career.

Scott Schuette (41:25.539)
Well, good.

Daniel (41:25.935)
There's my weird training tip. I told you it was weird.

Zeta (41:26.909)
Hey, if it works. If it works. I would say to not be afraid to say, don't know when someone asks a question and you're not sure. It be like, oh, hey, I'm not sure. This is my estimated guess and parking lot it. Look it up and follow up. Make sure that you figure it out so that way you're going to be prepared for it next time.

Scott Schuette (41:30.596)
Zeta.

Scott Schuette (41:52.335)
Could you please describe what a parking lot is for those of us listening that don't know what one is and everybody should use one?

Zeta (41:58.845)
so when you're in the middle of a discussion, you don't wanna go off topic, but you wanna make sure that you hold onto it. It's like putting a pen in it, you parking lot it. You say, I'm gonna plant this here, but we're gonna come back around to it. But it's gonna be here right now while we stay on topic.

Scott Schuette (42:19.215)
super, super weapon, the parking lot. It's really great. Sam, how about you? You got a tip?

Zeta (42:21.263)
Mm-hmm. yeah, it helps out. Definitely.

Sam (42:25.915)
Yeah, I would say pace yourself and structure your environment. If you're doing the need to talk on or teach like an hour on a subject, make sure you know like what topics you're going to reach within that hour. And if this is your first time doing a long training or a long topic discussion, be prepared for the steps you'll need to take along the way.

Scott Schuette (42:56.943)
Great, cool. Dean talked about using people's names. Using people's names is really important because it is the one word that you always respond to. Scott, whoa! Somebody, you know, I gotta be honest, I'm not great at remembering names. And you don't have to be, and my pro tip today would be use a tent card. A tent card is nothing more than, you know, a piece of cardboard where people write their name, or I always let people like, hey,

whatever you want me to call you, just know that if you write Eric Cartman on there, I'm going to call you Eric Cartman. By the way, somebody did that and we called them Eric Cartman for about an hour. And he changed it, right? Because he didn't want to be called Eric Cartman. But that was cool. And you're never ever, not having a tent card is the biggest excuse and lie ever. Just grab a piece of paper, fold it over and then take the corner and then flip that over. It will stand up. And you always know people's names.

It is, it is not, um, a horrible experience for the other people. It will change the dynamics of what you do all the time. And I just tell people, you're going to get to know me really well because only one of me, but there's a hundred of you. And I'm just, I'm write your name down. Right. And it's just, it's absolutely brilliant. Um, if you're doing it, if you've virtually, you've got names there as well. Uh, 10 cards, gotta use them. They're, they're, they're a must. Um, a little sub.

bullet to that is I always bring scented markers, right? So if you got it right on the whiteboard or whatever you got, you got your scented markers, right? And so I have a joke for that. Dean, do know the joke for the scented markers?

Dean Griess (44:39.32)
can't think of what it is. I'll probably recognize it.

Scott Schuette (44:40.695)
Okay, all right. Well, the red marker, what smell is the red marker?

Dean Griess (44:46.084)
cherry.

Scott Schuette (44:47.085)
cherry okay great what smell is the black marker

Dean Griess (44:51.278)
Licorice, black licorice.

Scott Schuette (44:52.688)
No, it's actually Jaeger-Meister. That's what I would always tell people.

Daniel (44:57.552)
You

Scott Schuette (44:59.289)
Dean, pro tip from Dean, and we'll let you wrap up. This has been a great, great time together, everybody.

Dean Griess (45:04.814)
I'll add one thing to your marker component, and I learned this a long time ago, is if you wanna get really crazy for sniffing markers, take the black and the brown, sniff them simultaneously, and you will smell either Dr. Pepper or root beer. That's all I'm gonna say. So from a pro tip standpoint, I think that what I would offer is study game film. And what I mean by that is not just watch your own sessions, but watch other people.

Scott Schuette (45:19.289)
or my markers.

Dean Griess (45:33.198)
facilitate, watch other presenters. I have found that just by having an insane amount of passion around this particular topic, I have learned so much and I have stolen a number of different tactics from other folks that as soon as I see them like, I totally wanna use that, I steal it. I may not use that because I wanna still keep it authentic to who I am, but I will grab tactics from other folks just by either sitting in on their sessions or watching game film of others. It is a great way to add more tools.

to your toolbox.

Daniel (46:05.583)
Love that, love that. I will say just to piggyback off of that, there is a game show on Dropout called Game Changers and I his name is Sam Reich. He is probably the best facilitator I've ever seen just from watching him do like this, you know, random game show thing they do and it's fantastic. Love that.

Zeta (46:07.246)
Excellent.

Scott Schuette (46:27.147)
Awesome, really great. Dean, give us just a couple things in wrapping up things that the audience needs to remember about what we've talked about tonight.

Dean Griess (46:39.746)
I, in all honesty, when it comes to being in front of an audience, it's starting somewhere. And whether it's, you know, don't show your duck butt or any tactic that you pick up somewhere. I think the more you can learn as much about the skillset and start somewhere. Apply one or two, once you feel comfortable, then try to do a couple more. I've seen so many people burn out so fast and get overwhelmed and give up because they try to go from brand new to the role.

to this amazing master facilitator or master presenter overnight and it doesn't happen. It takes time to hone the craft. And so the more you can learn about it and start applying these elements is gonna really be an immense amount of enhancement. And one quick shout out to the backside of the book or in the back of Don't Show Your Duck Butt, I included cheat codes. And within the cheat codes is it gives you a direct connection if you're just starting out.

try these five areas of the book. If you are super master level and you're looking for epic refinement, here's how it is. If you want executive presence, start with these tactics. So it's not all consuming, but you can be very specific on where you target within the book if you decide to go there, because it's all about continuing to build and hone that craft over time.

Scott Schuette (48:03.395)
Dean, love it. You're always a great guest. We'll have to have you back. We're going to be spending more time, folks, on facilitation in the weeks to come. Facilitate like a pros. We're going to start talking about it. I think it's super great. In the meantime, Dean, could you do me a favor? Could you our audience know how they could connect with you, please?

Dean Griess (48:21.315)
Yeah, so I'm very active on LinkedIn. It's Dean, D-E-A-N, Gris is spelled a little funky, G-R-I-E-S-S as in Sam, and I put a lot of various content out there and just put some fun things out there as well. I'm currently running a Duck versus Chat GPT right now, just to see the difference between what the Duck would offer versus what GPT offers. In addition, I also have a website, DeanGris.com, super easy to remember.

Again, G-R-I-E-S-S as in Sam.

Scott Schuette (48:56.175)
Well, that's great. connect with Dean. He's great. He's always there to help you. You've been a dear friend of mine for years, and I'm always very, grateful that you can join us on our show. Daniel Son.

Dean Griess (49:06.382)
I appreciate it.

Daniel (49:08.366)
Yes, Scott.

Scott Schuette (49:09.209)
Do me a favor, you let our audience know how they could connect with us?

Daniel (49:13.133)
Absolutely. All right, guys, you guys know what's up. This is the part where I ask you to email us at nerds at TheLearningNerds.com. If you haven't, now's the time. This week, we would love to know what's your tips and tricks for facilitating a room. Maybe you're not facilitating. Maybe you're just in a room and you want to know more. Email us. We'll talk about it. If you're on Facebook, you can find us at Learning Nerds. On Instagram, FabLearningNerds. And lastly, for more information about us, what we do and updates, www.thelearningnerds.com.

Scott, back at you.

Scott Schuette (49:44.463)
Hey folks, thanks a lot Dan. Do me a favor, could you go ahead and hit that like button, hit that subscribe button, share this episode with your friends. So much good content on here from our good friend Dean, so be sure to do that. And do me a favor, could you go ahead and leave a review on this episode or any other episode because you know what? It's a great way for us to get better and it's a really great way for us to get information out to more of you. And with that, I'm Scott.

Daniel (50:12.763)
I'm Dan.

Zeta (50:14.129)
I'm Zeta.

Zeta (50:20.295)
Dean. And I'm Dean.

Scott Schuette (50:21.379)
No, Sam, Sam, say something. Dean's waiting for Sam. Yes.

Sam (50:26.619)
You're waiting for me. I'm Sam.

Dean Griess (50:30.136)
And I'm Dean.

Scott Schuette (50:31.676)
And we're your Fabulous Learning Nerds, and we are out.