The Fabulous Learning Nerds

They are the fabulous learning nerds Cause if you're tired of the old ways of getting it done You've got the fabulous learning nerds Scott, Dan and Zeta are making it fun The best ideas that you've ever heard So everybody spread the word Gonna keep you with turning The fabulous learning nerds
Fabulous Learning Nerds. I'm Scott Schuette, your host, and with me, our co-host, you love him, Dan the Man Coonrod.
Dan the Man, he's the s***.
Mr. Coonrod.
What is up? How you doing?
I'm doing okay.
Like, I had a week off for the holiday. So we took a week off for the holiday. So I had vacation. And now I need a vacation for my vacation. Because all I did was set up for the big night, tear down for the big night, set up all of... I mean, you might as well. Like at the end of Halloween, you might as well put up all the Christmas stuff.
So I put up all the Christmas stuff. All the Christmas stuff is up. We're good. Scott, I just want to say I believe you and everyone in our audience should be brave enough to leave your Halloween decorations up until December 20th. At the very earliest. giving. Why do you have all those lights and garland up? Be like, because it's always Halloween. Be brave. Well, the people with the giant 12 foot skeletons do that. You've seen that like the Home Depot skeleton. Yes. And then you just put a Santa hat on them.
That'd be great. I do not have one that if you do not have one, you will not be able to get them anymore. Like they retired that design. So that is I heard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what a sad world we live in where you can't find 12 foot animatronic skeletons and he right Don't replace it with something equally as expensive. I would think so that was cool and it was just off the charts like we had a thousand kids by eight o'clock and Then another five six hundred came after we ran out of candy because they wanted to see our cool display.
Holy crap. Did you say 1000 as in 1000 and then 600 more? Yeah, so we had 1000 pieces of candy. We were out by eight
o'clock.
Holy crap. That's an invasion. That's not such Halloween. You were
invaded by candy grubbing kids.
Andy Grubbin Kids.
Let's play a game.
How many trick-or-treaters do you think I had at my house? I'm going to guess like two.
Oh, wow, that's a good guess. No, it was zero because I'm the only house on my street and I live out in the middle of nowhere. And to be fair, if somebody were to stop by my house and knock on the door and say, like, trick-or-treat, they would be particularly brave. Again, like only house on the street, middle of nowhere. And I'd be scared. I would be scared no matter the costume.
Do you leave a bowl of candy out for anybody that's brave enough to come to your house so you don't have to deal with it?
No, but we did have a bowl of candy just in case.
True story down here in Southwest Florida, OK, so I live in everybody's Southwest Florida. Somebody left a bowl of candy out for the kids and a bear got to it. So there's a bear digging in the bowl of candy.
Oh my God.
You know, candy bear.
There's cocaine bear. You heard a cocaine bear. Who's a real thing, by the way. Yeah. Pablo Escobar. I just there's a real bear. It's not his name. Pablo Escobar. Yeah. Now we got the candy bear.
Yeah.
So I think I might enjoy the movie Candy Bear more than cocaine bear. I think Candy Bear is like something I could like show up with my kids and have a good time laughing about.
How you doing my friend?
I'm you know, I feel like I'm pretty much fair to middle.
You know, each each and every week it's like a new alley with a new masked man yelling fair to midland at me and I love it.
You know what else is down the alley? You love her. The Dutchess of Design. Zayda's with us everybody. What do you know, Z-Girl?
Oh, Scott, I know so much. What do you want to know? I think that's a more apt question.
What is the average velocity of a sparrow?
A European or African sparrow? Oh, she got it right! Oh my gosh! Oh, man!
Woo! Oh, fantastic. All right, we can still be friends. That is great.
Awesome.
Awesome. Oh my gosh.
Off to the bridge of death with you.
What's your favorite color?
Blue.
No, no green.
Oh!
Oh my gosh.
It's a brave sorbonne day.
Gosh. Monty Python and the Holy Grail, everybody.
If you haven't seen the film, please go check it out. If you haven't, you're completely lost. And that is sad because everybody should see that film.
Monty Python truly is the catnip of nerds.
This is what I've heard.
The catnip of nerds. Yeah, that's probably pretty true. That's great. No, seriously. What do you know?
I know that the hunger to learn is a superpower.
That's what I know.
Wow. Everybody here that the hunger to learn is a superpower. I think that's fantastic. I think that's great.
It's a good way to be, though.
I mean, curiosity is awesome. And that leads sometimes to false leads. But hey, that's this whole thing of the discovery. It's figuring out what works. Question for you, Miss AI Princess, if I can call you that.
Have you played with Premiere Pro beta?
No, I have not.
Okay, have you ever had to do transcript or subtitles for a video? Mm-hmm. Okay, have you used Premiere Pro to do that? Yeah.
Have they automated it?
Yes, you hit a button, it does it for you automatically. That is slick. It was 1,000% spot on. Like, every word in the video was captured, put into a subtitle. It took me 30 seconds. The person I was working with sent me a script. I'm like, you don't need to do that. Well, no, here it is. I'm like, no, no, no, you do that. Should we hit this little button here? Done. All you do is like adjust the fonts and stuff like these. Still got to do that. Right. But I'm like, oh, my God, it was the greatest thing ever.
That's like magic. That's such a time saver. That's awesome.
Yeah. People are again, folks, if you're not in the on the AI bandwagon you got to get on it It's just such a great thing. It's gonna save you tons of time that would have taken me a day Probably but it took 30 seconds. It was fantastic. So Open your day to new brighter things. That's awesome. It is it is. Yeah. Well, we could certainly chat about Past holidays giant skeletons and AI all the rest of the time. But we've got a special guest that I really want to give this person the opportunity to talk about what they know. And we're going to get to know all about them in a little segment that we call What's Your Deal?
Hey man, what's your deal?
Jared!
Hello.
Hey man, what's your deal my friend?
What is my deal? Well, first of all, I just want to say thank you guys for having me on. I love your guys' podcasts. You know, I'm in the learning development field myself. And so getting together with fellow learning development nerds is always an enjoyable experience. I have about 13, 14 years in corporate L&D experience. I never set out to go into this field. I had zero interest or desire to even get into the corporate world, do anything business related. I spent most of my 20s actually in grad school and getting my PhD so that I could go teach in academia. I wanted to be a professor. One thing led to another, and I kind of fell backward into an environment, that training, teaching education in the corporate world was a thing, I had no idea. And it just was kind of at the right time in my life where there was a fork in the road and that's kind of where I started to put down my roots was in learning development and training. So literally started off, you know, I don't have any formal business training whatsoever, I've never taken, I've taken a lot of undergraduate and graduate classes. I've never once took a business class. So everything that I learned along the way was just kind of trying to figure it out or trial and error or you know having the right mentor or peer that I was able to learn a lot of those things through. So I love teaching in the classroom. I love creating the curriculum. I love nothing more than to help people learn and grow and become successful in their jobs. And along the way, kind of discover that pay is a little bit better in corporate America than in academia, as are the opportunities. There's a lot more opportunities in corporate America versus academia. But yeah, I cut my teeth for about six, seven years at that first job and then had the opportunity to move to Nashville and continue that journey in the learning development space. I really grew and evolved as a leader during those, you know, my last gig, which was about seven, eight years. And then I left not too long ago to focus on my own startup, a coaching and consultant company called Red Arrow. But I think for me one of my big passions just based on my journey is helping other people, equipping them in the business world with the tools that that I never had, that I was never exposed to. And it's just kind of giving me that passion. You know, you don't know what you don't know when you are starting a new job or starting a career, but I think having people that can kind of hold your hand a little bit and really help kind of give you the right tools, point you in the right direction, give you the right advice, give you healthy perspectives. That's a passion of mine and that's something that I'm trying to bring through the startup that I'm part of.
Well, you're doing great stuff. I'm super excited to be talking about it. So without further ado, let's go ahead and dive into our topic of the week.
All right.
Are you ready?
Yes. Are you ready? Yes. Are you ready? Yes. Are you ready?
Yes.
This week, we're talking about targeted, systematic development in people's careers. Awesome stuff. Jared, help me understand, what do you mean by that? What are the benefits of this?
Yeah, I heard a quote once that said, you know, if Olympic athletes have coaches then you should too. And you know, my first thought is, well I'm not an Olympic athlete, right? But the point being that if you're really serious about being successful in whatever it is you're doing, you should have a coach. You should have somebody that can help you develop, help you goal set, help bring clarity to what you're wanting to go out and accomplish. You know, I mentioned earlier, you know, I had never taken any professional or business classes or anything like that before I started my career. And I think, hang on, sorry, I got off a little bit. I have to, oh, I came across a stat that 75% of the workforce are in a job unrelated to their area of study in school. So a lot of us are just kind of trying to figure it out as we go, and we get stuck. We get confused, we get discouraged. Sometimes we've sort of reached the end of one road and we're not sure which way to turn or what road is
next.
And I think having somebody who can really help you sort through your own thinking and come to some realization, some clarity, not always necessarily taking somebody from step A to step Z, but helping them even incrementally, you know, from step A to B and to see and just having kind of enough light on that path to take those next
couple of steps confidently. I love that and I'll share this anecdote and I shared it with you and I've actually shared this story I think a couple times here on the podcast but I was I was a corporate trainer and I was definitely nearing the end of my rope with being a corporate trainer like I was frustrated I didn't know what was next I didn't have a whole lot of development. And it was you, it was you who came into the classroom and you're like, have you thought about being an instructional designer? And I think I told you no, like three times, like I'll be a trainer forever. Knowing inside that I wasn't gonna be a trainer forever, but just like not wanting to take that like that next step. But without that guidance, without that inspiration, I would not be in learning and development today. And so you're a hundred percent right. And like just personal story, obviously here I am talking to you, the circle, but more than that, like I see people every day, all the time who are like, who are smart, capable people who are like, I just don't know what to do. And like a coach, somebody can look externally and be like, well, have you thought about this? But when you're inside the bucket, so to speak, you can't see out. All you see are walls.
And it can be really scary when you're in that situation.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, like whenever in a situation where you need answers, I think the first step though is to ask questions and definitely asking questions of people that know, I think is a definite good first step to that next step.
Yeah, and from a coaching perspective, the philosophy of corporate coaching or business coaching really is you have the answers. We all have the answers. It's just a matter of sorting through all the clutter and the noise that kind of takes over in our own thinking. And having someone to help you untangle that big set of knots that exists in your mind is really helpful and it's powerful. They just, somebody to have an outside objective third-party perspective. And, you know, being able to see your strengths and understanding really what lights you up and what your goals in life are, you know, whether they're business or personal or whatever goals. I think just helping kind of sort all of that out and then really help ask the right questions that get the kind of the wheels turning. And like I said, it's not always some, hey, we're unlocking the next 50 years of your life and everything is now suddenly clear. But sometimes it's just clarity to take that next step or next two steps. And sometimes then that opens up a whole new wide array of opportunities and passions and things that maybe you never even knew until you just had someone that kind of helped give you a little guidance or a little nudge in the right direction, so to speak.
Jared, give me a little bit of explanation around this idea of coaching and clarity.
My philosophy, and I think a pretty mainstream coaching philosophy is that individuals have the answers. Deep down buried somewhere, I don't think most of us think that we have the answers, but there's kind of an initial assumption that they're that who you're coaching or who you're working with really does have the answers. They're smart, they've got experience, they know what they like, they know what they don't like, and so I think sometimes though we're at a point in our careers and our lives where we're, maybe our back is up against the wall, there's a lot of pressure, maybe we're in a very kind of scary situation, maybe we're unemployed, maybe we're underemployed. Whatever the situation is, whatever the reasons are, a lot of times our minds just get clouded in a very kind of minute granular way parse out What we want to go do
What's next for us?
What we want to go learn new skills new a new job a new profession Whatever it is, and I think having someone just help Help you shine that light on The path in front of you and help you navigate some of those obstacles that are in front of you is enormously beneficial. And just like we talked about having other specialists in your life that you hire, like a plumber or a dentist or things like that, they're for a finite period of time. They are in your life until a certain issue or problem is resolved. And that's the same thing with coaching. Coaching doesn't and really shouldn't be, you know, having a coach for 18 years or 30 years. You can have a coach for a couple of weeks. You can have a coach for a couple of months or whatever it is, whatever time period you need to help, you know, kind of walk through and and figure out and wrestle through and untangle what some of those kind of knotty problems are in your life. And then once you get through that period and you've got more clarity, clarity of thinking leads to confidence in decisions. And so once you are confident about some of the next steps and the decisions you're gonna go make, you don't need that coach anymore. And then perhaps six months later, four years later, whatever it is, you're in a similar situation where you need some additional help. And, you know, I think that's another opportunity then where you hire that specialist, that coach who can, again, help bring clarity in your thinking so that you
can have confidence in your decisions.
Coaches the compass in the dark times.
That's why I named the company Red Arrow. It's named after the Red Arrow Highway, which is a relatively small highway in southwest Michigan that sort of hugs the shore of the eastern part of the lake, Lake Michigan, and it just it takes you through these quaint towns, beach towns, and it's a really just if you drive that road, that highway, you're going to have, you're going to discover all kinds of cool places and meet all kinds of really interesting people and just beautiful scenery. But, you know, thinking about like the analogy I kind of wanted to bring to bear to my company was, you know, you can make analogies for growth and development, like building, you know, like construction, like architecture. You can do it through gardening or agriculture where you're helping somebody grow and you're cultivating. But the one that really resonated with me was like a journey. So helping people kind of down the journey of their life, their career, and when, you know, maybe there's a road hazard or there is an unexpected detour or inclement weather or the car breaks down or whatever it may be and you need help. You need help, you know, to continue to get down that path or to travel that journey successfully. And that's, you know, what I'm here to help you do is to help get from point A to point B to point C
on your journey from point A to point Z. So talk a little bit about leadership from this perspective, right? So you've got the people like doing, doing the work that's unrelated to their, you know, area of study in school, which I think is more prevalent than even 75%. I think it's just kind of a thing. You know, but talk a little bit about the importance of coaching for leaders.
Yeah, absolutely. One of the things I want to try to dispel is that coaching is completely different from, you know, leadership development. To me, they're all intertwined. Zeta, hearing you say that coaching isn't a band-aid, it is talent development. And it was just like, boom, lights kind of went on for me, like just to make that, just that to draw that, like to underscore the fact that coaching is talent development and leadership development is talent development. So it's all in that same arena, sometimes with a slightly different maybe bent or angle, but it's really all part of that same puzzle that we're putting together and building. I mentioned about the 75% statistic just a few minutes ago, but I was reading in Fortune Magazine an article a couple of weeks ago that said that 80% of people in management roles had no leadership training at all. So nothing formal. And it's a phenomenon, I guess they call the accidental manager. And I can definitely relate to this. I was an individual contributor. I was a trainer. I was an instructional designer. And then three, four years in, I had the opportunity to become a manager. Again, I'd never taken a business class. I'd never taken a managerial class. And you just kind of are left to sort of figure it out on your own. And it really is up to whether or not you have a good boss and they're able to kind of coach and develop and mentor you but if you don't, you're flailing. And some people are more aware of it and maybe more like emotionally intelligent, understand the gaps and opportunities that they have, but others aren't. And they need a lot more like prescriptive direction around how to develop as a leader. I was thinking about this not too long ago, but we're all people, and at some level, we just kind of, we are who we are since we were kids. Yes, we've grown and matured and developed in a lot of different ways, but there's still a thread that kind of pulls through. And I was thinking, you know, like in junior high or high school, and you've got the mean girls, you've got the bullies, you've got those different people that kind of made your life challenging, difficult. Well, they grew up and a lot of them never changed and are actually in management or in their bosses today. And just the trauma, and I'm not trying to overstate this but the trauma that they can inflict on the people that they are quote-unquote leading is a real thing I've had a couple of I've been blessed to have some really great bosses and I've also had some horrible bosses and I'm telling you that the working for a horrible boss affects not just your work life but it affects your entire life oh I'm saying like PTSD and I don't want to diminish that word. I know there are people that certainly experience really horrendous things and PTSD is a real thing for them. But I mean there have been times where I haven't been able to sleep or I just I wrestle with nightmares because of just experiences I've had with certain bosses. And I guess all that to say that becoming a, developing and growing and maturing as a leader, like in the right ways and at the right pace is a really important thing for not only the teams that they lead, but for the company as a whole and for, you know,
society, quite frankly. Yeah, it's fascinating how many people just kind of find themselves in those management positions without like any specific training for the actual position. I mean you talked about like having specific people to help you train for certain things but like when we seek professional growth sometimes we just tend to rely on like trial and error and it doesn't work. Like we need a, definitely need a structured, measured way of growing because there's people that look up to us or people that depend on us to help them grow when we're in those management positions. Like how do we create that structure then to help them flourish in an environment?
That's right.
You know, and I think it's weird because in every other aspect of our lives, we recognize the need for specialists to help us. Whether it's, you know, hiring a plumber, a painter. One of the best decisions I made a couple of years ago when I was trying to get back into shape, I got a gym membership, but I knew that that wasn't enough. I hired a personal trainer at that gym who would work with me and they knew the right routines, they knew the right equipment. And it made all the difference for me being able to go to somebody and work with somebody who could not only lead me through these different routines and reps, but teach me so that eventually I wouldn't need a personal trainer. And I think Zeta, you're spot on. It's just why when it comes to our professional development, whether it's as a leader or even as an individual contributor, why do we just leave that almost to chance or maybe haphazardly flip through a book on leadership or something, but never really in a systematic way go through some type of more formal training to equip us.
I want to speak to my experience, but I also want to really speak to the new leaders out there because I know that there are some people who are that are listening, right? And they're like, oh my gosh, you're talking to me, right? And so one of the things that I know and I found when I first started leading people is you go into what I would call functional leadership. Functional leadership being this idea that, oh, well, it's going to be easy. We're just going to get as much stuff done as we can. And I'm going to do my fair chunk of the stuff. That's functional leadership. Like, hey, Dan and Zeta, you do this, and you do this, and I'll do this, and we'll all get the stuff done, and that'll be great. And for a short period of time, you could be celebrated in functional leadership. But it is the lowest form of leadership. Your role in this new world, and you need to be given permission. I was given permission to lead by a great boss. He was like, Scott, I need you to lead. Well, okay, well, what does that mean? Well, I mean, your people need to be doing these things. We need to be saying no to these things, right? So this idea that saying yes to everything and getting everything done is the right thing to do from a leadership perspective is wrong. And I was like, Oh my gosh, you're right. And so with that in mind, was there the framework from a coaching perspective? Or was there the things that I needed to grow? And some yes, but maybe no. Folks, I'm telling you straight up, if you're in this role and you're doing functional leadership or worse, I don't know, maybe I'm going to get better at this thing. What books are you reading? What podcasts are you listening to? Not just this one, but what podcasts are you listening to? How do you get better? Give yourself permission to learn and grow and apply those things. Some things will work, some things won't. If we have a growth mindset, all of that will be great, it will be good. You have permission to do that. Two books that I would highly recommend, I'm not getting paid for this, but if they want to pay me, that's great. Everybody, in my humble opinion, needs to read Stephen Covey's book, Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. It should be taught in every high school across the United States of America. We would be in a much better place if everybody did that. That's foundational, that's number one. Number two, for me, it was extreme ownership, right, with Jocko Willink. His book really resonated with me. Those books may not resonate with you. Go find something. Go be the leader that people expect you to be, and then you'll have the opportunity to influence others. And then, Jared, I love what you're saying.
Get a coach.
Get a specialist. And if you have those hard conversations and you say, hey, I need this or I need that, and you're not getting it, have a 30 second pity party. I'm not gonna get what I need, this is not sad. And then go out and get it. Because there's lots of really smart people. Go talk to Jared. I'm sure he'll help you, right?
I would love to.
Go talk to Red Arrow and he'll help you, he'll help you get better. Folks, you have my permission, you give yourself permission to lead and be a leader that you need to be
and do the things that are necessary.
Well, Scott, I like what you said there about, you know, sometimes when you initially get that first leadership job, you think like, oh, this is easy, kind of that functional leadership. And I was reflecting on that earlier today as well and thinking, you know, I really think the hardest job in the world is leading people. And that can be in any sector, any industry, but, you know, people are so complex and getting people to organize around a common goal and to inspire and empower them and develop them, that is extraordinarily difficult to do. And if you don't think that that's hard, then you've probably never led people. Maybe you've been blessed with just this all-star team where everyone is just basically perfect. Or maybe you've just never really been pushed to meet high-performing expectations, or big, audacious goals. But, assuming any of those things are true, leading people really is, I think, the most difficult thing, professionally speaking, that any of us will potentially do. And so, again, why not have some type of systematic way to get development and growth?
I teach an instructional design class, And we split everybody up into teams, and for one of the projects, somebody has to be the project manager. And every time I've heard that person say, oh, this is pretty easy, that's like the first flag. Like, uh-oh, something's probably wrong. Let me dip in real quick and see how everybody else is doing. Like, hey, how are things going? And like, without a fail, if somebody's like, oh, yeah, no, I'm having, it's easy, I got this. Like, the people who are like working with them as a project manager are like, this is bad. Things are bad. Things are off the rails. So you're right. Like being a leader is immensely difficult. And if you're sitting around and you're patting yourself on the back and you're like, I got this, I urge you to take a moment of introspection, check with your teams and say, hey, real quick, do I have this? Are you guys good? Is everything okay? Am I doing a good job? Are you doing good? Take a quick look because it's not, it's not easy. There's all kinds of like people focused, important weighty decisions that happen every day. Couldn't agree more, Jared.
I agree too. When it comes to leading people and trying to, especially when you're new in that position, I think that first initial instinct, I don't know if you guys did this was like, oh, hey, I can just tell them what to do, they'll do it. And when they didn't do it, you take over. And that's like the worst thing to freaking do. It is the worst thing because one, you're showing them that you do not trust them. And two, you're not helping them navigate their own course. So like, yeah, definitely, if you wanna be a good leader, if you wanna be out there and help others, help them grow.
Well, looks like we're getting close to the time where you start wrapping things up? Are there a couple bits of nuggets that you wanted to share with us, Jared, that you didn't have an opportunity to before we kind of wind things up today?
I think you guys, I think we've kind of covered it.
I've really enjoyed it.
I've, again, enjoyed the opportunity. I do need to give a shout out to you guys. I meant to do this earlier, but I was, I'm part of this Slack channel. It's an L&D Slack channel with probably 3,500, 4,000 learning development professionals around the world. And somebody in one of the channels asked, what is your favorite learning development podcast? And your guys' podcast came up a couple of times as I combed through that thread. So kudos to you and the difference you guys are making in helping other people get clarity and growth in their journey. Heck yeah.
Well, it's all because we have fantastic listeners and amazing guests like yourself, Jared. That's totally awesome. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, calm down, people.
Calm down.
Hey, do me a favor.
Could you let our audience know how they could connect with you, sir? Absolutely. So you can visit my website. It's redarrowcoaching.com. Or you can email me at contact at redarrowcoaching.com. Well, again, thanks so much, Jared. Really appreciate it. the clarity around the things that we can do to be better leaders and to help our people do more. I think that's really awesome. Daniel-san. Yes, Scott. Could you do us a favor? Could you let everybody know how they could connect with us?
Absolutely. Alright, party people. If you haven't already, email us at nerds at thelearningnerds.com. Tell us about the coaching plan that you've got for your own growth and development or if you don't have one, what you plan on doing for your own growth and development. We really want to hear about it. If you're on Facebook, you can find us at Learning Nerds and if you're on Instagram, Fab Learning Nerds. Lastly, for more information about us, updates and all the cool stuff we do, www.TheLearningNerds.com. Scott. Thanks, Dan.
Hey, everybody, do me a favor. Could you go ahead and hit that like button? Hit that subscribe button. Please share this episode, all of Jared's wonderful ideas to your friends because it's super duper awesome. If you could do me a bigger favor, if you could, leave us a review either on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts. Helps us get better and it helps us get our message out to more people. And with that, I'm Scott.
I'm Dan.
I'm Zeta.
And I'm Jared. And I'm Jared.